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拉杰什·戈皮纳坦说，塔塔数字公司可能成为未来的塔塔公司

塔塔咨询服务公司(Tata Consultancy Services)首席执行官拉杰什•戈皮纳坦(Rajesh Gopinathan)在一次独家采访中表示，该公司正专注于增长和转型，通过向现有客户提供更多服务来扩大收入。

塔塔咨询服务（TCS该公司正专注于增长和转型，通过向现有客户提供更多服务，扩大来自现有客户的收入Rajesh Gopinathan印度经济时报的拉古·克里希南和冈古力菩萨在接受采访时说，他正在制定未来五年的掌舵计划。摘录:

塔塔对塔塔以市值计算的集团。你对那个责任/负担有多清楚?
一点儿也没有呢。它的建立方式，基本上是为了最大化我们的业务。它是一种被传播的DNA，因为DNA非常强。我从团队层面开始，我知道20年前，其他人扛着接力棒;还有其他一些公司规模也一样大，也一样多元化……今天，轮到我们了。类似的例子是候鸟以v字队形飞行。它的物理原理是前面的鸟为下一只鸟创造升力。随着时间的推移，不同的鸟会占据前面的位置……这就是我们公司的运作方式。 In any given portfolio, there will be one or two that are performing very well at any point, which will seed the performance of others. That's the natural progression. If you take a longer view, different companies have (taken the mantle within the Tata group). And still they've managed to run the portfolio and expand it. Today, the seeding that is happening on digital, maybe 20 years later, they will be the ones who will be the leaders.

从逻辑上讲，这只能是两件事。但也可能是你说的数字业务?
或者(塔塔资本)金融服务。

金融服务可能是另一种可能性，还是说会有一些大规模转向可再生能源?
我觉得制药在印度没有得到充分开发。新冠肺炎疫情证明，本地问题可以在本地解决，市场是广阔的。制药又是一个主要领域，我认为我们没有公平对待目前在那里的公司。

你的鸟比喻的问题是，很难看到其他公司能与TCS相提并论……
我在上世纪90年代加入塔塔时，塔塔钢铁(Tata Steel)和Telco(现在的塔塔汽车(Tata Motors))处于领先地位。谁能想到现在会是TCS ?所以，我看到别人和我们有同样的立场。

TCS在塔塔集团的数字化计划中扮演什么角色?
我们在内部有一个值得信赖的角色，但从我们的开发和技术合作伙伴的角度来看，他们也变得越来越自给自足，特别是通过新的收购。现在他们更独立了。在早期，我们是更大的合作伙伴。

今年2月，你将完成五年的CEO任期。你实现了你的目标了吗?
这五年就像坐过山车一样。第一年的工作就是确保公司内部稳定下来，同时管理好人们的印象。我们花了很多时间来确保我们满足了客户，并给他们信心，什么都没有改变。这只是领导层的更迭(接替了成为塔塔之子董事长的N·钱德拉塞卡兰)。过去一年半/两年是这种(大流行)。我们也设法让事情继续发展。其中一个原因是我们建立在我们已经做了很长时间的事情的基础上。虽然这对我和NG Subramaniam(首席运营官)来说是一个很大的变化，但团队的大部分成员都是不变的。他们的工作是恒定的。通过将战略与他们一直在做的事情紧密联系起来，然后向前推进，破坏的程度被降到了零。 On the business side, we are increasing the focus on the non-CIO organization, staying very grounded about who we are, but attacking the adjacencies so that we rebalance our portfolio.

随着接种疫苗的步伐加快，你什么时候会看到人们大量回到办公室?你在去年阐述了25/25的愿景……
25/25模式的目的是从客户和内部利益相关者那里获得反馈。反馈非常积极。我们现在只有不到5%的员工在办公室。我们预计，到今年年底或明年初，我们的办公室将恢复到70-80%。第一个目标将是让50%的人(从办公室)和其余的人(远程)接触。重要的一点是，我们不打算把我们的劳动力分成在家工作和在办公室工作两类。每个人都必须到办公室工作一段时间，可以灵活地在家工作。

如果Covid-19浪潮在美国加速，这是否会令人担忧?
我们的预期是，它更像是一个小插曲，而不是一次重大上市，因为它不太可能导致像其他公司那样的医疗恐慌。与我们合作的大多数公司也将疫苗接种规定为强制性或准强制性，他们在这方面设置了很多限制，疫苗接种是会发生的。所以，我认为，我们运营它的生态系统将会自我隔离。

你以前提到过要从事咨询行业。这会增加你们的利润吗?
历史上没有任何证据表明咨询是一个高利润的行业。每个人似乎都认为这是一种高附加值。这不是从利润的角度来看的，而是从确保我们与客户的相关性不断增加的角度来看的。今天，我们有50多家客户，我们的收入超过1亿美元，但都是战略客户。重要的是，我们要尽可能多地满足他们的需求。我们必须继续自我改造，继续解决他们目前的问题。如果我们这样做，随着我们增加与客户的钱包份额，这将自动转化为盈利能力……对我们来说，持续增加收入和利润增长具有重要的战略意义。

在过去几个季度里，印孚瑟斯的增长率有所回升。这是你一直关注或担心的事情吗?
这是一个面向市场的指标，我们会密切关注，但不会让我们担心。正是良好的竞争使我们双方都受益。它也帮助我们保持警觉……所以，对我们来说，我们有持续的增长，没有任何大的问题。我们有了规模，问题是，下一个要突破的边界是什么?这种增长和传播的边界是一个很重要的障碍，我们不能轻易地去买一些东西，然后把它拴在上面，而是要能够在内部进行这种转变，这是一个很大的边界。如果我们这样做，可寻址市场将发生多方面的变化。我们一直受益于一个将持续多年的大主题，那就是每个行业的技术成分都在增加。因此，每个行业的技术预算都会自动增加，但正如我们在一些较大的竞争对手身上看到的那样，我们目前是在企业内部的一个点上销售，通过能够扩展，我们可以解锁更多的技术。这也将使我们更有弹性，因为无论出于什么原因，在这条道路上出现了一个小问题，拥有更广泛的投资组合和更广泛的客户关系将使我们更有弹性。

市值的上升应该非常令人满意，因为这是对你的模型的验证……
在不同的时间点，市场怀疑我们是否能适应不同的技术变化。每当这个神话被打破，你就会看到市场上的这种变化。当自动化到来的时候，有很多报道说自动化将是这个行业的丧钟。当数字时代到来时，(评论人士说)数字时代将把我们消灭。所以，每次你能够证明这一点，你知道我们是有弹性的，而不仅仅是有弹性，我们可以乘风破浪，而不是被打乱……

你会考虑大规模收购吗?
这是一个什么重要的问题。这并不是说我们过去没有收购。我们通过收购和合资企业在欧洲和拉丁美洲等市场进行了扩张。2008年，我们以5亿美元收购了花旗的后台业务，当时我们规模较小，市场也小得多。我们的消费银行产品来自于对澳大利亚FNS的收购。我们有这样做的良好历史。我们没有那么高产……但合适的资产必须以合适的价格出现。

你是否希望通过大规模海外收购来显著扩大公司规模?
我不这么认为，因为如果你看看现有的宇宙，没有什么东西对我们有很大的吸引力。在我们的历史上，也许这是一个选择。如今，对此的简单回答是“不太可能”。你们更关注的是我们没有涉足的领域的市场准入，或者是我们一直在做的能力准入。我们的价格太高了，已经有一段时间了。对于今天的市场来说，我们太保守了。所以，我们的市值可能很高，但在支付现金方面，我们是保守的。我们喜欢像(拉胡尔)德拉维德一样玩。当每局比赛进行到后半局的时候，一切都开始变得明朗起来。

在家工作能节省很多钱吗?
目前，我们没有放弃任何房地产。从短期来看，这只会增加成本，因为我们需要重新调整我们的办公室，使其成为开放的合作区域。在新的办公室里，我们正努力把这些原则带进来。真正的好处是把人们看作是一个共同的人才云。由于(我们的)工作实践，我们认为团队是位置依赖的。你知道，一个班加罗尔项目，一个孟买项目，一个金奈项目……所以，我们根据地点优化项目，这在我们这样的公司有自己的摩擦。如果你将人才视为一个公共池，那么人才的杠杆率就会显著提高。你可以更快地开始项目。在我们正在考虑的模式中，你会知道它会在旅行中被翻转，因为我们必须赢得合作本身，我们将为人们提供飞行服务，并支付酒店费用。

如果有人告诉你，在超过90%的员工不在办公室的情况下，你能够相对正常地工作，你会想象这是可能的吗?你是怎么做到的?
绝对不是。2020年1月，如果有人说过，到3月，你将关闭整个工作环境，我们将转移远程，这一事实是可以做到的，更重要的是，它完成的速度，我认为这超出了我们的想象。我们从未想过会有这样的风险。我们模拟各种场景。我们模拟一个城市停电。

但我们在印度几乎100%的产能都关闭了，然后在全球分布产能，这是我从未想象过的。我不认为任何组织会想到这种转变可以像实际发生的那样无缝衔接。但当你回头看时，背景中发生了很多事情，这些事情一起起了作用。长期以来，我们一直在投资数字协作工具集。

我们已经将敏捷作为一种主要方法，并在我们几乎所有的项目中使用敏捷原则。敏捷所做的是，它是一个高度接触的工作环境，在那里它很适合数字协作。但是客户的信任度相当高，几乎90%的客户都让我们来主导。大流行所做的是它突然消除了所有与之相关的风险认知，因为每种风险都有自己的应对措施——我们应该做吗?我们不应该做吗?值得吗?突然间，这一事件改变了人们对风险的看法。

所以，每件事都有一个绿色的标志，一种向前批准的工作，说让我们这样做，然后我们看看会发生什么。态度的转变是最大的促成因素。一旦你开始工作，许多担忧都被证明是毫无根据的。这改变了方法，并不断收紧和修改它。

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TCS
Tata Consultancy Services<\/a> (TCS<\/a>) is focusing on growth and transformation to expand revenue from existing clients by offering them more services, chief executive Rajesh Gopinathan<\/a> told ET's Raghu Krishnan and Bodhisatva Ganguli in an interview, as he draws up a plan for the next five years at the helm. Excerpts:

TCS has an outsize influence on the Tata<\/a> group in terms of market capitalisation. How conscious are you of that responsibility\/burden?
<\/strong>
None whatsoever. The way it has been set up, we pretty much run to maximize our business. It's a DNA that gets transmitted because the DNA is very strong. I started at the group level, and I know that 20 years back, other people carried the baton; there were other companies that were as large and as diverse... Today, it is our turn. The analogy is of migratory birds as they fly in a V-formation. The physics of it is that the bird in front creates lift for the next one. Over time, different birds will take up the forward position... That's how we are as a company. In any given portfolio, there will be one or two that are performing very well at any point, which will seed the performance of others. That's the natural progression. If you take a longer view, different companies have (taken the mantle within the Tata group). And still they've managed to run the portfolio and expand it. Today, the seeding that is happening on digital, maybe 20 years later, they will be the ones who will be the leaders.

Logically, it can only be two things. But it could be either that as you said, the digital business?
<\/strong>
Or (Tata Capital) financial services.

<\/div><\/div>Financial services can be the other possibility, or is there some big movement into renewable energy?
<\/strong>
I feel pharma is under-exploited in India. The Covid-19 pandemic has shown that local problems can be solved locally, which means the market is wide open. Pharma is again a major area, and I don't think we have done justice to the companies that are currently there.

The issue with your bird analogy is that it is difficult to see how any other company can match TCS\u2026
<\/strong>
When I joined in the 1990s, Tata Steel and Telco (Tata Motors now) were leading. Who would have thought that it would be TCS now? So, I have seen when others had the same position that we have.

What role is TCS playing in Tata group\u2019s digital initiative?
<\/strong>
We have a trusted role internally, but from our development and technology partner perspective, they are also becoming more and more self-sufficient, especially with new acquisitions. Now they're more standalone. In the early days, we were a larger partner.

In February, you will complete five years as CEO. Have you achieved what you set out to do?
<\/strong>
These five years have been a roller coaster (ride). The first year was all about making sure that we stabilize both internally as well as manage perception. A lot of our time was spent just making sure that we met the customers and gave them the confidence that nothing had changed. This is just a leadership change (taking over from N Chandrasekaran, who became chairman of Tata Sons). Then the last year and a half\/ two years has been this (pandemic). We have also managed to keep things moving. One of the reasons is that we have built on what we have been doing (for long). While it was a big change for me and NG Subramaniam (chief operating officer), the bulk of the team was constant. Their work was constant. By keeping the strategy linked tightly to what they've been doing, and then moving it forward, the level of disruption was minimized to zero. On the business side, we are increasing the focus on the non-CIO organization, staying very grounded about who we are, but attacking the adjacencies so that we rebalance our portfolio.

<\/div><\/div>With vaccinations gathering pace, when will you see people come back to office in large numbers? You had articulated the 25\/25 vision last year\u2026
<\/strong>
The intent of the 25\/25 model was to get feedback from customers and from internal stakeholders. The feedback is very positive. We are right now less than 5% (of employees) in the office. We expect that towards the end of the calendar year or early next year, we will get back to 70-80% in the office. The first target will be to get to 50% of the people (from office) and the rest (remotely). The important point is that we do not intend to segregate our workforce into work from home and work from office. Everybody will have to come into office for a period of time and can have the flexibility to work from home.

Will it be a concern if the Covid-19 wave accelerates in the United States?
<\/strong>
Our expectation is that it's more of a hiccup rather than a major listing because it's unlikely that it will result in the kind of healthcare scare that the others had. Most of the companies that we work with are also making vaccination mandatory or quasi-mandatory, and they're putting so many restrictions around it, that vaccination will happen. So, the ecosystem in which we operate it, I think, will insulate itself.

You had alluded in the past about getting into consulting. Will this increase your margins?
<\/strong>
There is nothing in history that says consulting is a highly profitable industry. Everybody seems to think that somehow this is a high value add. It is not from a margin perspective, but from making sure that our relevance to the customer keeps increasing. Today, we have 50 plus customers with whom we make more than $100 million revenue, yet strategic customers. It is important that we try to address as many of their needs as possible. We have to keep on reinventing ourselves, keep on staying with where their current set of problems are. If we do that, and as we increase wallet share with the customer, that automatically will come into profitability\u2026 it is strategically important for us to keep on increasing our revenue and also be margin accretive.

In the last several quarters, the growth rate of Infosys has picked up. Is that something you keep an eye on or worries you?
<\/strong>
It is a market-facing metric that we keep a watch on but not something that worries us. It is good competition that has benefited both of us. It also helps us stay on our toes... So, for us, we have had sustained growth, we have not had any major hiccups. We have the scale, and the question is, what is the next boundary to push through? This growth and transmission boundary is an important barrier to push through and not to take an easy task of trying to buy something and bolt it on, but to be able to do this transformation internally, that is a big boundary to get through. If we do that, the addressable market changes manifold. We have been benefiting from a big theme which will continue for many years, which is that technology components in every industry are increasing. So, automatically the technology budget of every industry increases but as we have seen with some of our larger competitors, we are currently selling into a single point inside the enterprise, by being able to expand beyond that, we can unlock a lot more of it. It will also make us more resilient, because if for whatever reason, there is a hiccup on this path, having a broader portfolio and a broader customer relationship will make us more resilient.

The rise in market capitalisation should be really satisfying to the extent that it is a validation of your model\u2026
<\/strong>
At various points in time, the market has doubted us - whether we will adapt to different shifts in technologies. Every time that myth has been broken, you have seen this movement on the markets. When automation came, there was a lot of coverage that automation is going to be the death knell of the industry. When digital came, (commentators said) digital is going to wipe us out. So, each time you're able to demonstrate that, you know we are resilient and not just resilient, we can ride the wave rather than get disrupted...

Would you look at significant acquisitions?
<\/strong>
It is a question of what is significant. It is not that we're not been acquisitive in the past. We have expanded in markets such as Europe and Latin America with acquisitions and joint ventures. In 2008, we acquired Citi\u2019s back-office business for $ 500 million, when we were smaller, and the market was much smaller. Our consumer banking product came out of an acquisition of FNS in Australia. We have a good history of doing it. We are not as prolific\u2026but the right asset has to come at the right price.

Do you look at a big overseas acquisition to significantly increase the size of the company?
<\/strong>
I don't see that because if you look at the available universe, there's nothing greatly attractive (for us). There was a point in our history when maybe that would have been an option. Today, a short answer to that is \u2018unlikely\u2019. You're more focused on market access to segments where we're not present, or capability access, and that we do on an ongoing basis. We have been priced off the market for some time. We're just too conservative for today's market. So, our market cap might be high, but when it comes to paying out cash, we're conservative. We like to play like (Rahul) Dravid. By the time the innings goes through, the later half of the innings, everything starts coming together.

Are there any significant savings from work from home?
<\/strong>
Currently, we are not giving up any real estate. In the short term, it'll only be costlier as we need to rejig our offices to be open collaboration zones. In the new offices, we are trying to bring these principles. The real benefit comes by thinking of people as being one common talent cloud. Because of (our) work practices, we think of teams as being location dependent. You know, a Bangalore project versus a Mumbai project versus a Chennai project... So, we optimize projects based on location that has its own friction in a company like ours. If you consider talent as a common pool, then the leverage of the talent becomes significantly higher. You can start off projects faster. In the model that we're thinking of, you will actually know it will get flipped for travel, because we'll have to win the collaboration itself and we'll be flying people in and will be paying for the hotels.

If somebody had told you that you will be able to function relatively normally with over 90% of the workforce not in office, would you have imagined that was possible? How did you pull it off?
<\/strong>
Absolutely not. In January 2020, if anybody had said that, come March, you're going to shut down the whole work environment, and we're going to shift remote, both the fact that it can be done, as well as more importantly, the speed at which it got done, I think it was beyond anything that we thought of. We never thought of a risk scenario like that. We model various scenarios. We model a city outage.

But almost 100% of our capacity in India going off and then the distributed capacity globally, I never imagined it. I don't think any organization would have thought that that transition could have been made as seamlessly as it actually happened. But when you look back, multiple things had been going on in the background, which all came together to help. We have been investing in digital collaboration tool sets for a long time.

We had shifted to agile as a means of a primary methodology and using agile principles in almost all of our projects. What agile does is it's a high touch work environment, where it lends itself well to digital collaboration. But the customer trust was quite high, and almost 90% of our customers let us take the lead. What the pandemic did was it suddenly removed all the risk perception related to it because each of them has their own responses - should we do it, should we not? Is it worth it? Suddenly, the event changed the risk perception.

So, everything got a green flag, kind of a work forward approval, saying let's do it and then we will see what happens. That attitude shift was the biggest enabler. Once you started working, many of the fears turned out to be unfounded. That changed the approach and incrementally kept on tightening and modifying it.
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