Online payments firm PhonePe<\/a> has spun off from Flipkart<\/a>, and received fresh funding of $700 million from Walmart<\/a>. In the process, Flipkart<\/a> divested 13% stake in the Bengaluru-based company to its parent Walmart<\/a> and a few of its other shareholders, more than four years after having acquired the young startup. Sameer Nigam<\/a>, cofounder & CEO of PhonePe<\/a>, spoke to ET’s Ashwin Manikandan & Samidha Sharma on what the new structure means for the company, the regulatory and competitive landscape in the sector, its IPO plan and big bets going forward. Here are the excerpts from an extended chat: 尼噶说话等新结构对公司意味着什么,监管和行业竞争格局,其IPO计划和大赌注 在线支付公司PhonePe剥离了Flipkart公司,收到7亿美元的新资金沃尔玛。在这个过程中,Flipkart公司此举意味着Bengaluru-based公司母公司13%的股份沃尔玛和一些其他股东,四年多后获得年轻的创业公司。Sameer尼噶的创始人和首席执行官PhonePe,说等Ashwin Manikandan & Samidha Sharma新结构对公司意味着什么,监管和行业竞争格局,其IPO计划和大赌注。以下是摘录一段聊天:
You have been in talks for a long time to raise external capital at a valuation much greater than $5.5 billion. Why didn’t these deals fructify into new investors coming on board?<\/strong>
It is true that we did engage with several external investors. The discussion with Flipkart and its board was around how to price a company that is just five years old, and in a market growing so fast. Our investors are well capitalised. There was no price at which they would rather be a seller than a buyer of a PhonePe stock. That’s a matter of immense pride for our team. That’s why the process itself was not making sense earlier (of raising external capital).
Just the way we merged with Flipkart pre-launch and it was a subject to controversy then but helped us keep focus; similarly now we hope to scale with the new capital now.
Can you explain the new ownership structure?<\/strong>
Flipkart continues to be the single largest shareholder with 87%. While Walmart has a majority stake in Flipkart, they are also the single largest direct investor with about 10% stake. The rest 3% is held between minority shareholders of Flipkart without any particular ratio.
The new structure is very attractive for Esops meant for our employees.
What will that look like for employees and the management? <\/strong>
I am not in a position to comment on the specifics as the paperwork is not done yet but every single full time employee of PhonePe will get Esops.
Earlier, only a few select engineering and management teams were eligible for stock options. But now the whole team from sales offline, online, operations customer service teams will be offered stock options.
Will the move help you to rival big tech companies in the digital payments<\/a> market in India?<\/strong>
There are two to three factors. While we are one of the largest payment platforms in India, we are competing against the largest global players. We need capital for that but $700 million is an attractive war chest to have. Every year since the last three years, one of the five Big Tech firms (Google<\/a>, Amazon, Facebook<\/a>) has come in and this year will be no different. The board recognises that.
So what’s the outlook for PhonePe keeping in mind the hyper competitive nature of your industry?<\/strong>
With the current base and momentum, there is a real chance to create value and become profitable. We also want to attract and retain the best talent. These three things work in tandem. For profitability we need capital; and capital helps us unlock value for shareholders and that’s how the best talent can be retained.
During Covid-19, as the earth is becoming flat, we are also looking to work with the best talent in the world.
Are you open now for external funding?<\/strong>
Now that the cap table has opened up, there is no diktat that we must raise only internally. However, there is no discussion at this point. I hope we become a profitable entity before we run through this money.
What are your plans for growing your business and becoming profitable?<\/strong>
We are looking at three core areas. One is payments, notwithstanding UPI and zero MDR. We have wallets, recharges and other distribution models where we are seeing value, and moreover, the appetite for digital payment is only increasing.
We have also entered the insurance and mutual fund space. Over the next four five years we will be launching small ticket, high frequency products such as SIPs, mutual funds, sachet insurance. Financial service is a big bet for us.
Thirdly, over next four to five years, we want to reach the remotest part of India and play a role in helping small businesses grow. This today is still in the exploratory phase and we want to see how the value will unlock.
But you won’t enter lending?<\/strong>
Not any time soon. The DNA for collection is not there yet with us. We are better suited for product and distribution so rather think about alternative credit platforms, distribution platforms and co-underwriting. I’d rather crack insurance before lending.
What about the IPO plan?<\/strong>
The primary capital and the new ownership pattern have opened up the option for an IPO. Discussions around when it will happen will be made by the board at the right time. Right now we have capital and we have a long-term investor in Walmart.
What are your comments on the evolving regulatory landscape for digital payments?<\/strong>
When you’re in an industry like payments and financial services it’s always bound to be heavily regulated. It’s not just about a tweet that goes wrong. Today we are saying because of outages, RBI has come down on HDFC Bank – which is a behemoth. If regulators are saying there is a need for better uptime and security then we all need to be in tandem... It’s important for consumer confidence. That’s the reason why this sector is heavily regulated. India is the hotbed for digital payment innovation unlike any other market.
What about the 30% cap on UPI? Do you see it impact your growth?<\/strong>
Right now, between us, Google<\/a> and Paytm it is 40-40-10 kind of share. But this is bound to change with both Amazon and WhatsApp<\/a> becoming more aggressive in 2021. Today 15% Indians are using digital payments. The market will grow further, and moreover 30% share is not small for a market of over billion people.
Do these kind of regulations affect investor sentiment?<\/strong>
At $5.5 billion valuation we have just scratched the surface. Earlier the talks were around how PhonePe will survive in the face of competition. Today we are among the biggest on the UPI platform in the country even as there are talks of UPI market share cap and WhatsApp<\/a>’s entry. We have plans and we need to behave the same way, because competition will come in. I genuinely believe that digital payments will become household just like telecom. Every family will have at least a member transacting digitally, and we want a piece of that pie. I can’t worry about regulations and market cap for five years from now.
What about your possible entry into commerce?<\/strong>
Stores and switches are more enabling and we are in the business of building platforms and not marketplaces. PhonePe Switch has 300 partners and we are still figuring out why some of them have not taken off. We are trying to figure out what customers want in terms of discovery and engagement. I’m more intrigued about how to enable discovery than commerce. Shopkeepers know how to run their shops and there are enough people doing that business, we want to see how we can enable that demand and supply dynamics.
I will never become an insurance manufacturer, but we will try and meet consumer demand.<\/p><\/body>","next_sibling":[{"msid":79546905,"title":"Gupshup launches 2-way messaging solution for enterprises","entity_type":"ARTICLE","link":"\/news\/gupshup-launches-2-way-messaging-solution-for-enterprises\/79546905","category_name":null,"category_name_seo":"telecomnews"}],"related_content":[{"msid":"79547334","title":"Sameer Nigam","entity_type":"IMAGES","seopath":"tech\/technology\/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-become-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam\/sameer-nigam","category_name":"With new structure, $700 million in capital, we have a real chance to turn profitable: PhonePe CEO Sameer Nigam","synopsis":"PhonePe CEO Sameer Nigam","thumb":"https:\/\/etimg.etb2bimg.com\/thumb\/img-size-1422397\/79547334.cms?width=150&height=112","link":"\/image\/tech\/technology\/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-become-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam\/sameer-nigam\/79547334"}],"msid":79547965,"entity_type":"ARTICLE","title":"With new structure, $700 million in capital, we have a real chance to turn profitable: PhonePe's Sameer Nigam","synopsis":"Nigam spoke to ET on what the new structure means for the company, the regulatory and competitive landscape in the sector, its IPO plan and big bets going forward","titleseo":"telecomnews\/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-turn-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam","status":"ACTIVE","authors":[{"author_name":"Ashwin Manikandan","author_link":"\/author\/479252742\/ashwin-manikandan","author_image":"https:\/\/etimg.etb2bimg.com\/authorthumb\/479252742.cms?width=100&height=100","author_additional":{"thumbsize":false,"msid":479252742,"author_name":"Ashwin Manikandan","author_seo_name":"ashwin-manikandan","designation":"Correspondent","agency":false}},{"author_name":"Samidha Sharma","author_link":"\/author\/20400\/samidha-sharma","author_image":"https:\/\/etimg.etb2bimg.com\/authorthumb\/20400.cms?width=100&height=100","author_additional":{"thumbsize":true,"msid":20400,"author_name":"Samidha Sharma","author_seo_name":"Samidha-Sharma","designation":"Editor- Emerging Business","agency":false}}],"analytics":{"comments":0,"views":104,"shares":0,"engagementtimems":520000},"Alttitle":{"minfo":""},"artag":"ET Bureau","artdate":"2020-12-03 17:04:25","lastupd":"2020-12-03 17:05:40","breadcrumbTags":["phonepe","digital payments","sameer nigam","WhatsApp","amazon video","Flipkart","facebook","walmart","google","MVAS\/Apps"],"secinfo":{"seolocation":"telecomnews\/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-turn-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam"}}" data-authors="[" ashwin manikandan","samidha sharma"]" data-category-name="" data-category_id="" data-date="2020-12-03" data-index="article_1">
新结构,7亿美元的资本,我们有一个真正的机会实现盈利:PhonePe Sameer尼噶的
的确,我们也与一些外部投资者。周围的讨论与Flipkart公司及其董事会如何定价的公司只是五岁,和在市场增长非常迅速。我们的投资者是资本充足。没有价格,他们宁愿PhonePe股票的卖家比买家。这是一个巨大的骄傲,我们的团队的问题。这就是为什么之前没有理解这个过程本身(筹集外部资本)。
Flipkart公司就我们合并的方式发射前,这是一个受争议,但帮助我们保持专注;同样现在我们现在希望与新的资本规模。
你能解释一下新的所有制结构吗?
Flipkart公司仍然是87%的单一最大股东。虽然沃尔玛有Flipkart公司的多数股权,他们也是最大的直接投资者约10%的股份。Flipkart公司其余3%是少数股东之间没有任何特定的比率。
新结构是esop计划为了我们的员工非常有吸引力。
员工和管理,会是什么样子?
我不是在评论具体的文书工作尚未完成,但每一个全职员工的PhonePe esop计划。
早些时候,只有少数选择工程和管理团队都有资格获得股票期权。但是现在整个团队从线下销售,网上操作的客户服务团队将提供股票期权。
此举将有助于你竞争对手大科技公司电子支付市场在印度?
有两三个因素。当我们在印度最大的支付平台,我们与全球最大的球员竞争。我们需要资金,但7亿美元是一个有吸引力的战争基金。过去三年以来,每年的五大科技公司(谷歌,亚马逊,脸谱网)已经在今年将是不同的。董事会承认。
那么前景PhonePe记住你的行业的恶性竞争性质?
与当前的基础和动力,有一个真正的机会创造价值和实现盈利。我们也希望吸引和留住最优秀的人才。这三件事在串联工作。我们需要资本盈利能力;为股东和资本帮助我们解开价值这就是可以保留最优秀的人才。
Covid-19期间,地球是平的,我们也在寻求与世界上最优秀的人才。
你现在打开外部资金吗?
现在盖表打开了,没有命令,我们必须提高内部。然而,并没有讨论这一点。我希望我们成为一个有利可图的实体通过这笔钱之前运行。
你有什么计划为您的业务增长,成为盈利?
我们看三个核心领域。一个是支付,尽管MDR UPI和零。我们有钱包、充电和其他分布模型,我们看到价值,此外,对数字只会增加付款。
我们也进入了保险和共同基金的空间。未来四个五年我们将推出小额、高频率的产品如口、共同基金、香囊保险。金融服务对我们来说是一个很大的赌注。
第三,在未来4到5年,我们想要达到最偏远的印度和扮演一个角色在帮助中小企业成长。今天仍在探索阶段,我们希望看到的价值将如何解锁。
但你不会进入贷款?
没有任何时间很快。收集的DNA没有和我们在一起。我们更适合产品和分配,而考虑另类信用平台,平台和co-underwriting分布。我宁愿裂纹保险之前放贷。
IPO计划呢?
主要的资本所有权和新模式开辟了IPO的选项。讨论的时候会发生将由董事会在正确的时间。现在我们有资本和沃尔玛的长期投资者。
你有什么评论不断变化的监管环境数字支付吗?
当你在一个行业像支付和金融服务总是一定会严格管制。不仅仅是一个出错的tweet。今天我们说因为中断,央行已经HDFC银行——这是一个庞然大物。如果监管机构说需要更好的正常运行时间和安全那么我们都需要在串联…对消费者信心是很重要的。这就是为什么这个领域受到严格监管。印度是温床数字支付创新不同于其他市场。
UPI 30%上限呢?你看到它影响你的成长?
现在,我们之间,谷歌和Paytm 40-40-10的份额。但这是与亚马逊和必将改变WhatsApp在2021年变得更加咄咄逼人。今天,15%的印度人使用电子支付。市场将进一步增长,另外30%是不小的市场份额超过十亿人口。
这些规定是否影响投资者情绪?
以55亿美元的估值我们刚刚触及表面。会谈是在早些时候PhonePe将如何面对竞争生存。今天我们在全国最大的UPI平台上即使有谈判的UPI帽和市场份额WhatsApp的条目。我们计划我们需要表现出相同的方式,因为竞争将进来。我真诚地相信数字支付将成为家庭就像电信。每个家庭都会有至少一个成员交易数字,我们想要一块馅饼。我不担心规章市值五年从现在。
你可能进入商务吗?
商店和开关更使我们在构建平台的业务,而不是市场。PhonePe开关有300个合作伙伴和我们还是弄清楚为什么他们中的一些人没有起飞。我们试图找出顾客想要的发现和参与。我更好奇如何启用发现比商业。店主知道如何管理他们的商店和有足够多的人这样做业务,我们想看看我们可以使供给和需求动态。
我永远不会成为一个保险制造商,但我们会努力满足消费者的需求。
读到
Online payments firm PhonePe<\/a> has spun off from Flipkart<\/a>, and received fresh funding of $700 million from Walmart<\/a>. In the process, Flipkart<\/a> divested 13% stake in the Bengaluru-based company to its parent Walmart<\/a> and a few of its other shareholders, more than four years after having acquired the young startup. Sameer Nigam<\/a>, cofounder & CEO of PhonePe<\/a>, spoke to ET’s Ashwin Manikandan & Samidha Sharma on what the new structure means for the company, the regulatory and competitive landscape in the sector, its IPO plan and big bets going forward. Here are the excerpts from an extended chat:
You have been in talks for a long time to raise external capital at a valuation much greater than $5.5 billion. Why didn’t these deals fructify into new investors coming on board?<\/strong>
It is true that we did engage with several external investors. The discussion with Flipkart and its board was around how to price a company that is just five years old, and in a market growing so fast. Our investors are well capitalised. There was no price at which they would rather be a seller than a buyer of a PhonePe stock. That’s a matter of immense pride for our team. That’s why the process itself was not making sense earlier (of raising external capital).
Just the way we merged with Flipkart pre-launch and it was a subject to controversy then but helped us keep focus; similarly now we hope to scale with the new capital now.
Can you explain the new ownership structure?<\/strong>
Flipkart continues to be the single largest shareholder with 87%. While Walmart has a majority stake in Flipkart, they are also the single largest direct investor with about 10% stake. The rest 3% is held between minority shareholders of Flipkart without any particular ratio.
The new structure is very attractive for Esops meant for our employees.
What will that look like for employees and the management? <\/strong>
I am not in a position to comment on the specifics as the paperwork is not done yet but every single full time employee of PhonePe will get Esops.
Earlier, only a few select engineering and management teams were eligible for stock options. But now the whole team from sales offline, online, operations customer service teams will be offered stock options.
Will the move help you to rival big tech companies in the digital payments<\/a> market in India?<\/strong>
There are two to three factors. While we are one of the largest payment platforms in India, we are competing against the largest global players. We need capital for that but $700 million is an attractive war chest to have. Every year since the last three years, one of the five Big Tech firms (Google<\/a>, Amazon, Facebook<\/a>) has come in and this year will be no different. The board recognises that.
So what’s the outlook for PhonePe keeping in mind the hyper competitive nature of your industry?<\/strong>
With the current base and momentum, there is a real chance to create value and become profitable. We also want to attract and retain the best talent. These three things work in tandem. For profitability we need capital; and capital helps us unlock value for shareholders and that’s how the best talent can be retained.
During Covid-19, as the earth is becoming flat, we are also looking to work with the best talent in the world.
Are you open now for external funding?<\/strong>
Now that the cap table has opened up, there is no diktat that we must raise only internally. However, there is no discussion at this point. I hope we become a profitable entity before we run through this money.
What are your plans for growing your business and becoming profitable?<\/strong>
We are looking at three core areas. One is payments, notwithstanding UPI and zero MDR. We have wallets, recharges and other distribution models where we are seeing value, and moreover, the appetite for digital payment is only increasing.
We have also entered the insurance and mutual fund space. Over the next four five years we will be launching small ticket, high frequency products such as SIPs, mutual funds, sachet insurance. Financial service is a big bet for us.
Thirdly, over next four to five years, we want to reach the remotest part of India and play a role in helping small businesses grow. This today is still in the exploratory phase and we want to see how the value will unlock.
But you won’t enter lending?<\/strong>
Not any time soon. The DNA for collection is not there yet with us. We are better suited for product and distribution so rather think about alternative credit platforms, distribution platforms and co-underwriting. I’d rather crack insurance before lending.
What about the IPO plan?<\/strong>
The primary capital and the new ownership pattern have opened up the option for an IPO. Discussions around when it will happen will be made by the board at the right time. Right now we have capital and we have a long-term investor in Walmart.
What are your comments on the evolving regulatory landscape for digital payments?<\/strong>
When you’re in an industry like payments and financial services it’s always bound to be heavily regulated. It’s not just about a tweet that goes wrong. Today we are saying because of outages, RBI has come down on HDFC Bank – which is a behemoth. If regulators are saying there is a need for better uptime and security then we all need to be in tandem... It’s important for consumer confidence. That’s the reason why this sector is heavily regulated. India is the hotbed for digital payment innovation unlike any other market.
What about the 30% cap on UPI? Do you see it impact your growth?<\/strong>
Right now, between us, Google<\/a> and Paytm it is 40-40-10 kind of share. But this is bound to change with both Amazon and WhatsApp<\/a> becoming more aggressive in 2021. Today 15% Indians are using digital payments. The market will grow further, and moreover 30% share is not small for a market of over billion people.
Do these kind of regulations affect investor sentiment?<\/strong>
At $5.5 billion valuation we have just scratched the surface. Earlier the talks were around how PhonePe will survive in the face of competition. Today we are among the biggest on the UPI platform in the country even as there are talks of UPI market share cap and WhatsApp<\/a>’s entry. We have plans and we need to behave the same way, because competition will come in. I genuinely believe that digital payments will become household just like telecom. Every family will have at least a member transacting digitally, and we want a piece of that pie. I can’t worry about regulations and market cap for five years from now.
What about your possible entry into commerce?<\/strong>
Stores and switches are more enabling and we are in the business of building platforms and not marketplaces. PhonePe Switch has 300 partners and we are still figuring out why some of them have not taken off. We are trying to figure out what customers want in terms of discovery and engagement. I’m more intrigued about how to enable discovery than commerce. Shopkeepers know how to run their shops and there are enough people doing that business, we want to see how we can enable that demand and supply dynamics.
I will never become an insurance manufacturer, but we will try and meet consumer demand.<\/p><\/body>","next_sibling":[{"msid":79546905,"title":"Gupshup launches 2-way messaging solution for enterprises","entity_type":"ARTICLE","link":"\/news\/gupshup-launches-2-way-messaging-solution-for-enterprises\/79546905","category_name":null,"category_name_seo":"telecomnews"}],"related_content":[{"msid":"79547334","title":"Sameer Nigam","entity_type":"IMAGES","seopath":"tech\/technology\/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-become-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam\/sameer-nigam","category_name":"With new structure, $700 million in capital, we have a real chance to turn profitable: PhonePe CEO Sameer Nigam","synopsis":"PhonePe CEO Sameer Nigam","thumb":"https:\/\/etimg.etb2bimg.com\/thumb\/img-size-1422397\/79547334.cms?width=150&height=112","link":"\/image\/tech\/technology\/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-become-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam\/sameer-nigam\/79547334"}],"msid":79547965,"entity_type":"ARTICLE","title":"With new structure, $700 million in capital, we have a real chance to turn profitable: PhonePe's Sameer Nigam","synopsis":"Nigam spoke to ET on what the new structure means for the company, the regulatory and competitive landscape in the sector, its IPO plan and big bets going forward","titleseo":"telecomnews\/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-turn-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam","status":"ACTIVE","authors":[{"author_name":"Ashwin Manikandan","author_link":"\/author\/479252742\/ashwin-manikandan","author_image":"https:\/\/etimg.etb2bimg.com\/authorthumb\/479252742.cms?width=100&height=100","author_additional":{"thumbsize":false,"msid":479252742,"author_name":"Ashwin Manikandan","author_seo_name":"ashwin-manikandan","designation":"Correspondent","agency":false}},{"author_name":"Samidha Sharma","author_link":"\/author\/20400\/samidha-sharma","author_image":"https:\/\/etimg.etb2bimg.com\/authorthumb\/20400.cms?width=100&height=100","author_additional":{"thumbsize":true,"msid":20400,"author_name":"Samidha Sharma","author_seo_name":"Samidha-Sharma","designation":"Editor- Emerging Business","agency":false}}],"analytics":{"comments":0,"views":104,"shares":0,"engagementtimems":520000},"Alttitle":{"minfo":""},"artag":"ET Bureau","artdate":"2020-12-03 17:04:25","lastupd":"2020-12-03 17:05:40","breadcrumbTags":["phonepe","digital payments","sameer nigam","WhatsApp","amazon video","Flipkart","facebook","walmart","google","MVAS\/Apps"],"secinfo":{"seolocation":"telecomnews\/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-turn-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam"}}" data-news_link="//www.iser-br.com/news/with-new-structure-700-million-in-capital-we-have-a-real-chance-to-turn-profitable-phonepes-sameer-nigam/79547965">